Best Presidents

topic posted Tue, February 17, 2009 - 1:05 AM by  offlineForrest
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Best:
1. Lincoln
2. Washington
3. FDR
4. Teddy Roosevelt
5. Truman

Worst:
38. Harding
39. Harrison
40. Pierce
41. A. Johnson
42. Buchanan
posted by:
Forrest
Oregon
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  • ROCK-BOTTOM WORST:

    Tue, February 17, 2009 - 7:43 AM
    Dubya
    • Re: ROCK-BOTTOM WORST:

      Tue, February 17, 2009 - 12:41 PM


      George W. Bush should not even be on the list. I am a big fanatic about historicity, eg, teaching that
      Lincoln gave a pro-slavery speech during his campaign, the capitalistic origins of Thanksgiving,
      the discoverer of American world was not Columbus. The true Hannibal was a mediocre general with
      a few spectacular wins.
      The role of the Bosphorus bridge in language and genetic distribution. The true cause of the World War II
      victory.
      Allied atrocities during WWII. What the Indians really did, thought and meant to American Government and
      American History.

      But Bush should be listed as a traitor and terrorist. His adminstration will be felt for decades if not centuries.
      and the Republican guild is the one to blame, look how they are flaming Clinton for (alledgedly) causing this
      mess.


      I am re-re-re considering Pierce's position on the list.
      Curious what your thoughts are .
      How deplorable were his choices, in your opinion?

      Randy Republican.

      -----------
      • Re: ROCK-BOTTOM WORST:

        Fri, February 20, 2009 - 1:27 PM
        Pierce, like Buchanan, is blamed for failing to avert the crisis which grew into the Civil War:

        His inoffensive personality caused him to make many friends, but he suffered tragedy in his personal life and as president subsequently made decisions which were widely criticized and divisive in their effects, thus giving him the reputation as one of the worst presidents in U.S. history. Pierce's popularity in the North declined sharply after he came out in favor of the Kansas-Nebraska Act, repealing the Missouri Compromise and reopening the question of the expansion of slavery in the West. Pierce's credibility was further damaged when several of his diplomats issued the Ostend Manifesto. Historian David Potter concludes that the Ostend Manifesto and the Kansas-Nebraska Act were "the two great calamities of the Franklin Pierce administration.... Both brought down an avalanche of public criticism." More important says Potter, they permanently discredited Manifest Destiny and "popular sovereignty" as a political doctrine and slogan of that time that purported to delegate the decision as to whether slavery should be allowed in a particular territory to the eligible white male voters therein, instead of being determined by a national scheme such as that emobodied in the Missouri Compromise and similar agreements between the free and slave interests.

        en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Pierce


        Pierce's decisions contributed to violence in "Bleeding Kansas":

        en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleeding_Kansas

        I think it is fair to say that Pierce was not the capable leader the nation needed in those difficult times. If he had had the luck to live in better times, his failings might have passed unnoticed.

        "Difficulties are things that show what men are."
        - Epictetus
      • Re: ROCK-BOTTOM WORST:

        Sun, April 5, 2009 - 4:12 PM
        Wow, Randy, I would like to hear more about the role of the Bosphorus bridge in genetic distribution, etc, and the true cause of the WWII victory. Most of the other things that you lable as histocracy (historical accuracy, I guess) , I know & am in agreement with you. I don't know much about the two I mentioned, though.

        I also think that Dubya has to be on the list of worst presidents , not least of all, that unlike his father (who I met & voted for), he prided himself on being not especially smart, but pretended to have a much stronger moral code than he did/does.
        • Re: ROCK-BOTTOM WORST:

          Sun, April 5, 2009 - 4:15 PM
          I forgot to add:

          In ten years or so, no matter what happens, most historians will probably put W at the top of the "Worst Presidents/Rulers/Heads of State " Lists , right up there with Pol Pol, Marcos, Idi Amin & Hitler.
          • Re: ROCK-BOTTOM WORST:

            Thu, April 9, 2009 - 5:31 AM


            I still think Franklin Pierce will be getting top billing for worst President by most, not because
            he deserves it but because I feel most historians will not look at Bush as having
            dragged us into the war in the Middle East. I think historians are more influenced
            by idealogies than they would prefer to admit.
            F. Pierce: worst prez for initiating the Spanish Am war. I think that title will
            probably hold for a long time until we get one worse than G.W. Bush.


            Randy
        • Re: ROCK-BOTTOM WORST:

          Thu, April 9, 2009 - 5:52 AM


          there is a very , ( in my mind and studies) eerie connection between India and
          Germany in language and other aspects though religion of Germany seems to have been
          influenced by Greece, and Persia. I get these ideas from reading
          "Thus Spake Zarathustra" by Nietzsche where the Titans, Chronos, and Zarathustrian
          deities seem to match up well with Germanic (bad term, sorry for using it) pantheon.
          The earliest of the Gods for the people in what is no Germany was/is Tyr
          which can find roots in Greco-Roman language.
          Turning for a moment to language, many of the words of the European area can be
          tracted back to Indo-European stock (germanic) which seems to have no
          explaination in the dynamics of early population spreading of homo-sapiens. Prior was
          the Cro-mango man (I like mangos, so I misspell cuz I can't spell.)
          So, if Cro-magnon man, as my recent viewing asserts was from 400 K to 40 k, and
          the neaderthal (TALL, not THal)
          was of the same period, and modern man was in the last 10 K years (pottery, metalurgy,
          art all seem to show up thorughout all of the Old world in the same period of 10 K B.C.E.
          Then want forces, the question is begged, brings the Indo languages and the Germanic
          languages to have many commonalities. Whereas the European languages
          are divided into Roman (Latin): French, Spanish, Itala, with very few Arabic influnences
          other than those brought in by the Mulsim invasions that occured across the Mediterrean
          in 6th century
          en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tours

          In all my sussing I simply can not account for how India and northern Europe
          being so far flung have picked up common roots in language yet Europe and India
          did not have the same measure of suspiablitity to those other cultures
          that were much nearer to each of them.
          Common words (borrow words) are found in each of these nations/peoples but
          hardly to the degree that chance and proximity would explain.
          WWII is another topic.
          • Re: ROCK-BOTTOM WORST:

            Thu, April 9, 2009 - 6:23 AM
            WWII ,. Many historians and hobbyists of WWII have scoured the photos of
            the end of the war and the documents to determine if Adolf Hitler my have
            had Siphylls or some other combination of diseasies that were genetic or
            caught, or perhaps acheived through poisoning. Whatever the case it is without
            doubt that Hitler was brillant as a commander in the early war if you compare it
            to his decision in the last of the war. His decline is not only measureable but profound and
            could be seen by those in Germany, US, England. In fact there are words coined for
            this decline, Bunker Mentality, where in Hitler began to covey round him only those
            he distrusted least and those who would not disagree with him. He became
            very paranoid and very stubborn in the end. One of the reasons for his insecurities
            was that he knew the power and need for fuel for his army, which was what he
            made sure was supplied to the troops during crucial campaigns.

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_...logy)#1945

            It was a bad setback that German forces invaded Poland then were commanded
            to withdraw because it was bad mojo because of the stars because it was
            a day too early. (so it is my understanding) Retaking the city the next day
            was a foot by foot battle and very costly to the ultimate plan and to troop
            numbers (many fatalities and loss of morale).

            Another point, there is something called "dead reckoning" which means
            the crew of an airplane will 'guess' their position based on
            surmised wind speed, direction, plane speed and the lights on the
            ground that can be seen. One craft bombed a city when it meant to bomb a
            military target; this event in combination with the many incursions and unprovoked
            hostilities by German U-boats against ships of peace caused disfavor toward
            Germany and the US to enter the war , the English to step up hostilites and
            the Aliies to become far more aggressive, 'Taking the gloves off" so to speak.
            If it had not been for these factors above, (all of those above) the war
            by the German nation would have dragged on far longer between the warring Nation
            and the many uncommitted nations of the Allies that would have preferred to
            remain isolationalist/pacficist.

            To put it in the simplist of terms, the school bully picked on too many geeks, too
            hard and too long and they ganged that bully in the ally come after school.
            The peoples of peaceful (sheepish cowardice) were forced to take action because
            of the arrogant brazenness that was being demonstrated by German command
            at the time.

            Please feel free to supply me with any pertainate information, as my 3/4 German
            dad may have had a bit of a odd slant on some events. In researching this
            I noticed many inaccuracies in what I was told, verses what the history books
            tell.


            Randy
            • German =Bad word

              Thu, April 9, 2009 - 6:28 AM
              Germanic (bad term, sorry for using it)

              Two posts up I state, Germanic is a bad term. What I mean there is that
              for that time of history, what is geographically Germany today was not a
              area of a specific peoples or language or beliefs, it was not yet
              to identify itself as such.
              Same could be said of Britain, Spain, Arabia, Or Pre-Qin Emperor dynasty
              China.
              All nations of today are the result of consolidations of feudal factions being brought
              together by war or economic neccessity.
              Randy

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